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Extra Extra--Wolves Trade Mayo To Memphis for Love in 8-player Deal

*****Check bottom of text for live blogging updates

Last update of McHale-Stack-Hoiberg press conference at 1:45 a.m.****

It's less than four hours before the start of the NBA Draft and as most regular readers know, I claim no expertise in these matters--life's too short, and college hoops loses out to my family, music, politics, etc., in terms of filling my noggin with temporarily useful trivia. But I know that many of you folks are both knowledgeable and passionate about this draft thing, and frankly, more than my own take, I want to do my part to expand the conversation among you. For example, those of who with more than a passing interest in the Wolves' prospects tonight who don't know about Stop and Pop's Canis Hoopus site www.canishoopus.com, well, it is probably a must-read--and more informative than what you'll get out of me this evening. Fortunately, S+P can't help himself and doesn't hoard his wisdom, so he'll probably come by at some point to offer an abridged version of his reaction here.

Ironically, because I'm not as consumed by the event as I am for the actual basketball games, it will be easier for me to bring along my laptop to the Target Center and do that newfangled "live blogging" thing that's so rad with the kids. I have no idea how that will unfold, and whether you'll get many frequent updates or the intermittant chapter and verse. We'll see how it plays out.

Before that happens--and before I let you folks get in your pre-draft thoughts, if you have any and care to share them--I'll just say that I feel more confident about the Wolves' braintrust this time around. They've clearly put more person-hours into breaking down the prime prospects, both during the college and international season and since the lottery. And I've been impressed with the way they have kept their options open, to the point where they seem like they are in the mix to get Beasley in a deal, or otherwise not only land a player they really like but some other assets besides. Now just because they have put themselves in a position to participate in the multitude of scenarios that are doubtlessly flying back and forth today doesn't mean they will exercise the right timing, boldness, and restraint and ultimately make the best decision. But the commitment and thoroughness thus far is already an improvement over the organization's behavior in most of the previous drafts.

My own gut feeling--and that's what people call it when their brains can't be definitive on a subject--is that neither Mayo nor Love is a perfect fit but would still substantially improve the ballclub, and that Beasley, if the scouting reports on his talent are accurate, would be a great boon and perhaps mark a turning point for the franchise. FWIW, I have no problems with the "character" of either Mayo or Beasley in anything I've read (Love is apparently so above reproach there are no "character" comments necessary). In fact I thoroughly enjoyed Beasley's comments about being a teenager and not being sure he wants to try and act 25, 30, or 40 years old right now. Refreshing honest, common sense, and, yes, more maturity than I would have had at that age.

Okay, see you down at the Target Center...

 

6:34--Everyone knows the Bulls are taking Derek Rose. Jay Bilas just said "he's better than anybody they've got" thus erupting out of the gate with the first hyperbole of the evening. Rose may or may not turn out to be better than Luol Deng (I wouldn't bet the house on it), but the casual way Bilas tossed this out makes me realize that I'm going to have to hold my tongue or spend my time kibbutzing all the yo-yos and the dubious things they say.

6:43: Heat take Beasley. But that's not surprising, nor should it be if the Wolves take Mayo third. Once you have the commodity, then you can wheel and deal if you have to. And there are a lot of teams that want Beasley, and Mayo. If Beasley and Mayo are still with the Heat and Wolves, respectively, on opening day, I'll be a little surprised. Then again, the Wolves may step out and take Love at the #3 anyway.

6:48: Wolves wait until the very end of their time before making their move. And, no surprise, they go with Mayo. Here in the media room, we were told as we came in that McHale would not come down and talk to us until after the second round, giving more credence to the notion that a trade may still be in the works. But thus, it is nothing but rumors.

Talking to Stephen Smith, Mayo reiterates that he can play point guard. Also he wearing glasses. Don't know if that's relevant--obviously there are plenty of pros who wear contacts on the court.

Now Pat Riley is on, giving every indication that Miami is going to hang on to Beasley. That would be the smart play.

Seattle takes Russell Westbrook, the first big surprise of the night.

7:02: Memphis takes Kevin Love, as Kevin McHale bites his knuckle. Almost all the scuttlebutt that has seeped out about the Wolves behind the scenes has McHale favoring Love above anybody. Certainly Love is a great fit for the Grizz, who can play inside and also spread the floor. But the same questions he would have faced in Minnesota will be asked--and, one way or the other, answered--in Memphis. Can he play D and bang enough to maximize his value in the paint?

7:07: Gallinari to the Knicks. Over at Canis Hoopus, Stop + Pop was saying he thought whoever the Knicks picked would wind up in Minnesota. Well, if so, Gallinari was in the Wolves top four, and IMO was right with Mayo and Love in the second tier on their board.

Just got word that Fred Hoiberg will be addressing the Wolves draft party downstairs. Be back in awhile...

7:21: Hoiberg didn't sat anything surprising.Tim Floyd, his coach at USC (and Hoiberg's coach at Iowa St.) said Mayo is the most competitive player he has seen in his entire life. Hoiberg loved the interview the team did with OJ--one on zero he called it, meaning, I think, that Mayo didn't have any handlers. He also said that there was "a realistic chance Miami would take him at #2." He also said he thinks Mayo "will be able to come in and help us right away."

Asked by Jim Petersen what the Wolves' biggest need is now, Hoiberg sensibly said "it would be nice to get some size." He pointedly mentioned that there are some free agent centers coming out that they will look at. And on the subject of whether the Wolves will leverage the two second rounders into something else, he said that they might go after some big men from Europe as opposed to getting some more 19-year olders on an already young team.

7:58: What do you do if you're the less talented of the two twins and play the same sport at the same school--you rock an Oscar Gamble style Afro. Robin Lopez gets picked by Phoenix, announcing to the world that they are indeed going in a totally different direction.

And leave it to Golden State to pick the biggest gamble in the draft, the guy people have called a future superstar and a clueless no-hope, LSU center/power forward Anthony Randolph. Asked by Stephen Smith whether he needs to hit the weight room, Randolph scoffs and says nah, not really, he's always played the biggest and toughest guy on the other team. Mebbee so, but at 6-10 and a robust 197 pounds, NBA opponents only hope he matches up with their 4's and 5's in the pros.

8:03: Clusterfuck time in the media room as it was just announced that OJ Mayo will be available for a conference call in 3 minutes. Everyone is piling in with their audio equipment. These "immediate reactions" never produce squat. Then again, it is not for me but for the sound byte culture who just need verification that he lives and breathes.

My favorite, "introduction to the media" quote remains Stephon Marbury the day he was physically introduced to the Twin Cities media, when he said "point guards are created from God."

Okay Mayo is on, says he is totally excited happy to be part of organization ready to get started.

Q; Similar to Foye, how do differentiate?

A: Fit in however, bring winning attitude.

You get the gist. Asked if worried about being in smallish market says just happy name called.

Preference point or two guard?

Whatever team needs.

Waht mean to be here tonight after saying at age 9 told Mom wanted to be in NBA?

happy name called.

How much better can make team?

Don't know just come in play with winning attitude make as well as possible.

Did he ever play with any Wolves?

Yes, Brewer.

 Excited to play with Jefferson?

Most definitely. big guy determined to work hard, so happy to be a part of team plaing alongside Jefferent, Brewer, Randy Foye...

Never been to Minnesota.

Larry Fitzgerald asks the first loaded question: What have you heard about Randy Wittman as a coach?

Mayo adroitly sidesteps, says he hasn't heard much and then drowns the rest of the sentences in platititudes.

Okay end of interview. "Thanks, see you guys tomorrow."

8:18: Portland swings a draft night deal and from my vantage point it looks like Kevin Pritchard strikes again. Jarrett Jack was a subprime point guard and as much as the esteemed S+P likes Brandon Rush, getting a highly-regarded backcourt pick like Bayliss and an intriguing big man like Ike Diogu seems like a good deal for Portland. After getting fleeced by Golden State in the Murphy-Dunleavey deal, they have now unloaded Jermaine O'Neal and pinned their hopes on a point guard combo of AJ Ford and Jarrett Jack. Meanwhile, Portalnd land is swimming in quality big men. Diogu is probably fourth or fifth on the depth chart at the 4/5 slot. Does anyone else think a Hornets-Blazers Western Conference Finals is going to happen for two or three years in a row in the next five years?

8:37: Just heard from a stray conversation involving a knowledgeable NBA source (don't try because you'd never guess who it is) that "Seattle isn't hanging on to Westbrook." I have no idea if this is accurate, but I know this source (who is not connected to the Wolves) has pretty good connections around the league.

9:17: Two picks to go before the Wolves' first second-rounder and a couple of guys S+P likes from championship clubs--Douglas-Roberts and Chalmers--are still on the board. So are the remnants of a slew of bigs, including a guy Andy G has talked about for months, Deandra Jordan from Texas A&M. The Pistons and Celts are up first, but it looks like the Wolves are going to get a shot at players that some of my more knowledgeable readers think can be solid contributors.

9:32: Okay, both the Pistons and Celts have taken seniors, leaving CDR and Chalmers and Jordan on the board--Minnesota has a shot at two of the three, or maybe folks like the big kid from Turkey. This is where knowledge is nonexistant, but I'll be happy to hear how McHale and company gush about them in about twenty minutes.

9:40: Nikola Pekovic of Montenegro is the #31. Good news: A big man. All you draft nuts, didn't I read somewhere that he's tied up in a long-term contract? This would confirm what Hoiberg was telling the draft party; that the team wanted to stow a couple of Euros and let them develop rather than having more teens over here on the roster. On the other hand, two or three years ago, the Craig Smith draft I think it was, they took another second rounder from Europe and said all kinds of nice things about him--brought him in the next day even--and I've never heard a word about him since.

According to the NBA draft guide spiral notebook they hand out here, Pekovic is 6-11, 265, was 22 in January, played for a team in Serbia last year and under strengths it is said: "Possesses great strength and is skilled and efficient in the low block. Passes well out of double teams." Hits better than 3/4 of his free throws. Who knows?

9:49: Chalmers at #34. So, a big man and a point guard in the second round. And for the second year in a row, the Wolves get the MVP of the Final Four. I'm sure that S+P and the rest of you guys who watch college hoops can give us more on Chalmers than I can. From his bio material it looks like he gets a lot of steals. For a 6-1 guy it looks like he rebounds well too. And he hit the big shot that forced overtime in the championship game against Memphis.

As I said many times, I'll speak with a little more authority when I can actually watch these guys play. But, whether you draft for need or not, getting a legit big and a legit point guard makes me happier than otherwise.

10:16: For those who don't usually read the comments, scroll down and catch S+P's link to John Hollinger, who says if Pekovic wasn't tied up to a big European contract he would have taken him third overall. yes, he said third overall. And Stan Van Gundy says it was a no brainer to take Pekovic as the first pick of the second round because second-rounders aren't on the books and this kid will play for big bucks in Europe for a couple of years.

Anyway, it is now 10:18 and the media is openly grumbling that McHale hasn't come down yet. Maybe he's working the phones trading the players we were just raving about?

10:32: McHale still isn't down and there is rustling now that something big may be in the works. Maybe something with Miami and bigger than two second-rounders for Chalmers. The daily guys are going crazy because their deadlines are looming for tomorrow and nobody is down here. This may all be too many people needing to file and too much time on their hands. In fact another guy is now in the room saying he talked to somebody from Miami and they are still solid on Beasley. But there was a brief flurry here that Beasley may still be in play. Now there is speculation that maybe something else is going on. In any case, the daily media guys are getting screwed and they're not happy. Not that it matters to anyone who isn't in the room with them--or reads the morning paper instead of blogs.

10:46: Chalmers to Miami for two second rounders and cash. Sounds horrible. If Chalmers was indeed first round material, and this team really does need a quality point guard, WTF? And don't overlook the "cash" in the deal either. Okay, with this blockbuster out of the way, maybe McHale will be down before midnight.

10:50: Fellow blogger Stephen Litel just told me that, after tonight's Lynx game, Shaddy McCants is out on the floor as I write this, shooting hoops.

10:57: Wolves PR guy Mike Cristaldi just came down and said McHale is working on something besides the Chalmers deal. So, take that for what it's worth--could be big or it could be more second rounders and cash.

11:23: Mike Cristaldi just came back down and said it will be another hour before McHale comes down. The media guys went crazy and then asked if it was big. Maybe, I don't know, Cristaldi said. Well, one thing for sure, they wouldn't dick around like this if it was totally minor. Nothing may come of it but the VP of Personnel never talked to the media the entire night after they had taken the third overall pick in the entire draft. You've gotta think something large is at least being seriously discussed.

But the more I think about it, the less it seems as if Beasley will be involved. Right now it is 12:30 in the morning in Miami, where the team won a ring just two years ago and where the fan base is still putting out big money in sizable numbers. If they go to bed hearing one thing and wake up hearing something else, that a blockbuster trade has been made, Willie Randolph firing style, in the dead of night, they could go apeshit. Will Miami really do something like that? I doubt it.

More likely--and I have no inside info folks, I'm just talking out loud--they might be trying to figure out a way to get Pekovic out of his Euro deal and over here in a reasonable amount of time. Because as of now they haven't done a thing about their huge hole at center. Nada. They got a combo guard and a Euro contractually bound to a team in Greece, and a couple of future second rounders and some cash.

In any case, I've decided to stick around and see what the big news is. A lot of the media are going home. Ah, but the live blogger gets the scoop. Such as it is...

11:43: Okay, Mayo is being traded to Memphis for Kevin Love! In addition the Grizz are almost totally clearing the useless contracts on the Wolves, taking Marko Jaric, Antoine Walker and Greg Buckner. In addition to Love, the Wolves are getting Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and Jason Collins. ESPN is reporting it, we don't have confirmation yet, but that's got to be the reason we haven't seen McHale.

11:52: I'll post again after McHale comes down. My first take: At least this is a consistent philosophy. McHale is continuing what he was trying to do since losing KG. There are players--Love, Collins and Jefferson down low, Foye and McCants in the backcourt and Miller to stick the J and space the floor and play swingman with Gomes. At first blush, I think I like the deal, provided Jason Collins has something left as a defensive center.

12:04: Longtime commenter Andy G hates the deal, which gives me pause. but again, my first reaction is positive. First of all, there was speculation that the Wolves were going to trade down from #3 and leverage Mayo for something. Okay, let's take them away for a minute. Mike Miller is head and shoulders the best of the six players with NBA experience in this deal. The most valuable player the Wolves gave up was Marko Jaric, someone who has been regarded as an expensive bust for the past 2 and a half years. Antoine Walker would be long gone, bought out, if he'd taken less money last year. And Greg Buckner was in street clothes as often as his uniform last season.

Yeah, the Wolves got at least of those stiffs in Brian Cardinal who has an atrocioius contract. And who knows if Jason Collins has got enough left to give the Wolves a viable defensive center for the times they aren't playing with Love and Jefferson together on the floor? But bottom line, the deal works out for Minnesota as long as Mayo isn't a star and Love pans out to be a solid, smart big man who can pry double teams off of Jefferson with Miller. Randy Foye also has to step up and make even a productive, star-like Mayo less damaging.

Bottom line, the Wolves got bigger, created more space on the floor for Jefferson and got rid of a lot of deadwood on the roster. If Mayo becomes a legit star, and Love is merely solid, it will not be seen as a good trade (unless Foye blossoms and makes Mayo seem redundant here). But in terms of proven commodities, Mike Miller is proven. Jason Collins is a proven defender who can complement Jefferson. The distractions of Marko and Toine are gone.

1:47: Okay, McHale, Stack and Hoiberg all came down and rather than get too fancy about it I'll just give you the bullet points.

--The Memphis deal came together late, near the end of the first round. The teams had talked earlier about Minnesota trading the 3 for the 5 and getting Mike Miller, but nobody was sure where Beasley would land and that made it difficult to pull the trigger. Later when the Grizz took Love the Wolves called back and were told no dice. But then, later in the first round, the Grizz suddenly called back and the deal was back on. "No one was more surprised than we were when they came back," McHale said. He intimated that one of the reasons the deal might have been facilitated was the Grizz wanted to add a couple of things that caused "Glen a little bit of a financial hit this year, which he was willing to do."

--Not surprisingly, the brass was really happy with the deal. McHale loves Love, called him "the best big man in the draft, in my opinion, and we were also able to get a knock-down shooter." He called Jason Collins a good post defender and Cardinal "a great locker room guy." But Love came in for the strongest praise: "Kevin Love is going to be a tremendous player for years and years." He noted that Love was not only freshman of the year but player of the year in the PAC-10 and referred to him as a "phenomenal rebounder." He acknowledged that neither Love nor Jefferson is a classic 7-footer but--and you fans of grumpy old man K-Mac are going to love this--mentioned how Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes won a ring as undersized bigs because they "knew how to play."

--But then Jim Stack jumped in and was more forthright and passionate, and voluble, than I've ever heard him. "People have said Kevin Love is not an athlete. I beg to differ," he said, saying that they ran him through a wide battery of tests at the combine and that "across the board, he measured almost identical to Al Horford, who some people think should have been the Rookie of the Year last year instead of Kevin Durant." He cited Love being able to jump 35" and have a wingspan of 9'. Then he said they got a big guy who allows Al Jefferson to play power forward and I didn't know if he was referring to Love or Jason Collins. He also said the Wolves had three needs heading into the draft, a perimeter shooter, a big guy and another veteran character guy in the locker room, which is how all three of the Wolves front office guys labelled Cardinal. Stack then also said that the deal "sets us up for free agency with our contracts in a couple of years" and that "we are going to be a big free agent player." Whether it was the odd hour of the day--past one in the morning--or the thrill of a last-minute, major, complicated deal, Jim Stack was a different human being than the mum, button down guy I've watched the past few years.

--When it was Hoiberg's turn, he noted that the Wolves had Mayo and Love very close, "side by side" in their evaluations, but praised Mayo and also called him a "sexy pick" who can 'spread the floor." But he stated that when you can add a Mike Miller and have the two guys who are so close together be swapped, you do the deal. Somebody asked Hoiberg about his comments to the Wolves draft party, and to reporters, about keeping Mayo, and Hoiberg was happy to be able to clarify that at the time he made those comments it was indeed the status quo--the Wolves didn't know Memphis would want back intot he picture. Then McHale came back and piled on to Stack's athleticism argument for Love, saying that he, McHale, was actually "really surprised" with Love's athleticism and then went into a soliloquy about the "small area quickness" and how important it was to rebounding that apparently some of you have already heard him deliver on KFAN.

--I asked about the second rounders; specifically how long Pekovic's contract is and why they decided to dump Chalmers for just a couple of future second rounders and some cash. McHale says Pekovic has a two year deal in Europe but then really wants to come to the States and play here, likening him to former San Antonio pick Tiago Splitter in terms of contract status. He said he saw Pekovic play a couple of times "And he's just a brute: 6-11, 260, and he just puts the wood on you." He said they got a tremendous amount of calls from other teams wanting to get the 31st pick because second rounders don't have to fit into a salary slot and Pekovic's situation makes him an incredibly attractive second rounder when he Euro contract expires. "Anyone in the 31st position would have taken him" he said, but the Wolves were lucky enough to own that pick. He noted that Pekovic plays in the top flight Euro league which he said is "by far better than NCAA basketball" in part because there "are a lot of grown men playing." As for Chalmers, he said that after the Pekovic pick and the Memphis deal was being worked, they made the deal with Miami for the two future second rounders and cash. Thus, he said, Miami actually made the pick for the player they wanted--the Wolves had nothing to do with drafting Chalmers.

--As the wrap up, McHale asked if anything surprised him about the draft. He said he thought Westbrook went a little high, that surprised him but he saw how Westbrook "is just a freakish athlete." He was surprised by how long Chris Douglas-Roberts lasted, "because he can really put the ball in the hole." And he was surprised "at the amount of calls we got on the 31st pick;" how it started early and continued until they actually made the pick, with some clubs even offering a protected first round pick in return.

Okay, that's it from here. I am probably going to open up another post and analyze the big Memphis trade, which I think is a net-plus for the Wolves, which apparently is not conventional wisdom among the fan base or many readers, so I want to get it up and get the conversation going. I'll be back here at Target Center for the 1:30 press conference, which is in about 11 hours.

Turned out to be a fascinating evening. Not a bad one to live-blog, certainly. Thanks for all those who participated.

132 Reader Comments

stop-n-pop (not verified)02:59pm
Jun 26
Thank you sir for the shout out. Much appreciated. For those of you unfamiliar with the site, Wyn and long time On the Ball commenter Peter W. also write at the site and they are very much worth your time. And no, Peter W. is not the secret identity of Jim Souhan...he just writes his material 3 days before it appears in the Strib. :) (See Souhan's latest artlicle and compare it to Peter's ongoing Draft Play.) Britt, I'm completely with you on Beasley's comments and they have kind of endeared him to me. First of all, the guy is a goofball who likes Spongebob Squarepants; not a guy who is driving drunk or profanely rapping on YouTube. Secondly, as a 19 year old I was in the military and I can completely relate to the pull between responsibility and youthfull prankishness. Now that I'm a few years down the road and have moved from fatigues to a monkey suit, I see a familiar pull between the uber-business-like Riley and the jokey Beasley. Riley is the type of guy who got where he is in life by will, seriousness, hard work, a bit of luck, a heaping of entitlement, and a complete lack of shame when it comes down to being an a-hole. Your average Fortune 500 company is filled to the brim with these sorts of Brooks Brothers patrons. For folks like Riley, and for colonels of 19 year old airmen, and for CEOs/CFOs of a consultant who takes his job seriously but would much rather be at home with his daughter and wife than he would putting in an extra 20 hours/week...well, let's just say that I relate to Beasley a hell of a lot more than I do a jerk-off like Riley. After all the tanking, the bad trades (he got took by the Wolves with Toine), the poor personnel decisions (Kapono and Posey being let go in favor of Wade being the primary perimeter threat), and the general lack of success since the NBA changed its rules to prohibt mugging, I can see very clearly that Riley's view of Beasley has very little to do with basketball. What I also realize is that it has very little to do with Beasley's actual behavior and instead rests in management's ongoing effort to maintain control uber alles. Hee would rather be viewed as an idiot than giving in. And so goes his future appointment to the McCain administration should Yes We Can not make it down the stretch.
Jim (not verified)03:33pm
Jun 26
You may not like Riles styles, but being an asshole is hardly the main attribute that's made him a hall-of-fame coach with a total of seven rings. The guy clearly knows talent and can motivate players. If he likes OJ, I think I'll take his word for it that Mayo — a guy who may have been a top three pick after his junior year of high school — is a pretty damn good player, despite the stats gospel you say makes him a lesser prospect than the slow-footed, unathletic under-sized for the front-court K-Love, who was exposed by Joey Dorsey in the NCAA tournament. I do agree with you that Beasley would be sweet, but it's not going to happen because Riley will either keep him or get another team to offer a better deal than the Wolves can.
stop-n-pop (not verified)03:42pm
Jun 26
Since I don't want to get into another Phil-Jackson-esque argument here, I'll just say [ robot voice ] Pat Riley is an awesome coach and he's an inspiration to all humanity [ / robot voice ] and call it a day. :)
Jim (not verified)05:14pm
Jun 26
I'm not trying to pimp Riley or anything just trying to emphasis that passing on Mayo would be a huge mistake. Maybe love isn't as slow as Joey Dorsey made him look in the NCAA tournament now that he's stopped drinking chocolate milk, but no one believes he can play small forward or center in the NBA so where is he going to play for the Wolves? Despite the fact that he's not as talented as Mayo, he has no position alongside Jefferson unless the country club is intent on continuing the bankrupt strategy of playing Al at the 5. I respect your knowledge but completely disagree that Mayo isn't a massive upgrade over Foye and McCants. Last year was the first year of his life he didn't play point guard so unlike McCants, Mayo actually has point guard experience coming into the league. He could be the over-sized 1 and balance out Foye's undersized 2.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)06:04pm
Jun 26
I hear what you're saying and I respect the take. Even if they take him, the roster will be immediately more talented.
Anonymous (not verified)07:01pm
Jun 26
From chad ford. NBA combine results. Kevin Love is faster and more agile than OJ Mayo. Oh well. Combine Results Player Vertical Jump (no step) Vertical Jump (max) Bench press Lane agility 3/4 court sprint Kevin Love 29.5 35.0 18 11.17 3.22 O.J. Mayo 30.5 41.0 7 11.04 3.14
Nate (not verified)08:43pm
Jun 26
above post is from me. You'll note that Mayo just barely beats love in lane agility and the 3/4 court sprint. That's sad for a supposedly athletic shooting guard.
Britt Robson03:57pm
Jun 26
Maybe so Jim, but sometimes conventional wisdom on what Miami wants and needs seems pretty weird to me. For example, I've heard more than once that a "good trade for both clubs" would be Elton Brand and #7 for Shawn Marion and #2, and I can't for the life of me see how Miami doesn't get totally hosed in that deal. Brand is coming off a significant injury and has a lot of miles on him. I happen to adore his game, and his heart, but there are no guarantees he's the same player as pre-injury, or that even if he is, he will continue to be for another 3-4 years. Is that really enough to forfeit the second pick in the entire draft? As for the Nets-Bucks deal, I think Milwaukee is committed to a whole new style of play. The franchise certainly played without any heart last season and new coach Scott Skiles is a very high-intensity guy who doesn't seem like he'd make Yi's appreciation of cosmopolitan Milwaukee any keener. And Simmons was a horrible signing, a glue guy who turned to sawdust. Devin Harris and Vince Carter make Jefferson more of a third wheel than when Kidd was there. One thing's for sure, with Mo Williams and Redd and Jefferson, Milwaukee will be able to score. But bottom line, I like this deal for the Nets more.
Nate (not verified)04:04pm
Jun 26
Jim, One thing you'll notice if you go the stats you much malign, is that Kevin Love is not unathletic, slow-footed, or under-sized for the front court. His measurements and agility/speed are almost exactly the same as Al Horford's, who was the runner up in the rookie of the year in 2007 and the #3 pick in 2007 draft. All of this doesn't mean Mayo's not better,but don't sell Love short (no pun intended). Yes, Love did not have a good game against Dorsey. But that was just one game. He did have a good game against the Lopez twins, for example. It might also help him to have Big Al take some attention.
Andy G (not verified)04:22pm
Jun 26
I don't think Love is a slow or unathletic front-court player, but I think he's too small to play center. And we already saw an entire season of Jefferson playing center. There's way too much going around about how the league is getting smaller--especially by McHale and Wittman on the radio yesterday. I saw a lot of teams make deep playoff runs with 7-foot players in their regular rotation. Boston, LA, San Antonio, New Orleans, Utah...most of the best teams have 7-footers, and the ones that don't (Detroit) have very tough, athletic sub-7-footers that rotate in and make up for lack of a couple inches in height. I just think they're crazy if they trade for Love and think that he and Jefferson can handle the paint together. If they pick a power forward high in this draft, they might as well swap Jefferson for Derrick Rose. At least that would make sense personnel-wise.
Nate (not verified)04:46pm
Jun 26
All good points, Andy G. What's crazy is that at 6-10 in shoes, Love is second tallest player on the roster, behind big Al. If you put Mayo and Love in same talent tier, I think we need Love more than we need Mayo. The need being: talented guys taller than 6-7 who can rebound. If I thought Mayo had much, much more talent than Love, I would advocate taking him. I'm just not sure about how much "better" Mayo is than Love. If Mayo is just a jump shooter who defends (not that those aren't awesome skills), and not a take it to the basket free throw generating machine, I feel that Love fills a bigger need. If Mayo can be a dynamic scorer taking the ball to the whole and hitting from outside all while playing great defense, then the wolves should take him.
stop-n-pop (not verified)05:00pm
Jun 26
I'll bring it up again: Love measured out with physical traits and athleticism similar to Al Horford. Also, as a 19 year old freshman, he put up numbers that may have moved up Horford a spot in the draft. If you think that Horford is athletic enough, or if he were in this year's draft, worthy of a top 5 pick, then the same thoughts should be extended to Love. Outside of Beasley, I'd take Horford in a second as the BPA at 3 if he were available in this year's draft. That being said, if the Wovles can't get Beasley, they need to maximize value by trading down.
Andy B (not verified)03:03pm
Jun 26
I have to coach t-ball tonight, so I'll miss the Wolves pick (Don't tell my son, but I'm praying for rain). I really hope the Wolves can pull off a trade. My wish list has whittled down to getting a 7 foot center to play next to Al Jefferson and anything else on top of that is gravy. I don't know if Lopez is the guy we need, but I do know he is the consensus best center in the draft. I am not confident in taking a chance on the second rounders. I really want to be done with Al at center and if it is Beasley or Love, the FO better have plans to play either of them at the small forward with Al sandwiched between them and a center bigger than Richards. Frankly, I don't think Love can play small forward. Beasley probably can handle it, but he has to be willing to conced to Big Al in the paint. If it is between Mayo, Love and Lopez at three, I'd try damn hard to trade down and take whomever has made the best offer and get a starting center in return or else draft Lopez at a later spot. But, thats just my wish. Mostly, I can't wait to see how it plays out.
antonymous (not verified)03:08pm
Jun 26
Oh, and just to get the rumormill started (these two I believe to be legit) - the Sonics and Clips have swapped places, Sonics getting a Clips protected 2009 pick. And the Bucks have dealt Yi Jianlian and Bobby Simmons to the Nets for Richard Jefferson. I'll also be at the Target Center or Lifetime Fitness or wherever the hell I'm supposed to be tonight, toting the tiniest of laptops.
David Brauer (not verified)03:21pm
Jun 26
No picks in the Yi deal, according to ESPN.
stop-n-pop (not verified)03:31pm
Jun 26
That deal makes zero sense to me. I'm not typically a guy who puts off-courtt potential ahead of on-court results, but Joe Alexander would have likely been there at 8 and he speaks Mandarin. Come on folks, that's a no brainer. That's millions out the door for Alexander. Plus, he's got the talent to boot. Jefferson is unbelievably overrated and an inefficient scorer. I get that Simmons is overpaid, but Jefferson makes more and he has an extra year on his deal. Zero sense unless it's tied to another deal. BTW: The picks are still there and both teams have assets that could interest the Wolves. I'd love to see if they'd take Shaddy for Marcus Williams. Both players need a new start.
antonymous (not verified)04:09pm
Jun 26
I'm also a little confused by this deal, but the Bucks had a bit of a logjam at that F position with Yi, Bobby, Villenueva, and Mason and they got the best player in this deal, the overrated Jefferson. I think RJ will be a better complement to Redd than Yi or Simmons, plus it does free up a spot for them to take Alexander, as RJ can play SG when they want to put Alexander in (if they draft him). The Nets are obviously going for the retool-on-the-fly method (and the free agent 2010 sweepstakes) grabbing 2 decent players for the price of one. Pretty good trade for both teams, but I won't hand out final grades until after the draft...
Nate (not verified)03:29pm
Jun 26
Seattle-Clippers trade involves the Wolves (sort of): from chad ford, ESPN: The Clippers and Sonics have agreed to swap picks as long as the Wolves take O.J. Mayo at No. 3. If Mayo isn't drafted at 3, the deal is off according to two sources close to the information. With the No. 4 pick, expect the Clippers to take Eric Gordon of Indiana. They've coveted him as the type of dominant scorer they've been looking for.
stop-n-pop (not verified)03:53pm
Jun 26
So if nothing else, the Wolves should offer the Clips the player they want for the 4 pick and their future 1st.
Nate (not verified)03:26pm
Jun 26
If the wolves can't get Beasley at a reasonable price, I really hope they get Love. I understand the need for a legit center and Big Al did not look his best playing the 5 spot last season. Love cannot play the 3, either so either Love plays the 5 or Big Al plays the 5. As much as Big Al struggled against big 5's last season, I think two things 1. There aren't very many big 5's out there 2. If Kevin Love can really pass, offensive rebound, and shoot like I think he can, Big Al is in for a completely different and better experience in the post then he was last year. Last year gomes was at PF with Al and C. Gomes is an OK shooter, and an OK passer, and a smart player. But talk about undersized! Love would be a huge improvement and would really make teams pay for double teaming Al. I also think Love's low post moves rival Big Al's and he should be able to score against PF just like Big Al can. Britt, I'm glad to hear that the front office really put in the work this year. The thing I find mildly shocking is the intense pumping of OJ Mayo as the consensus 3rd best player by the local media. I think it's a toss up between Love and Mayo (at best for Mayo). But if the wolves actually pick Love at #3, the local writers seem ready to pounce. Let's hope it goes well tonight.
David Brauer (not verified)04:49pm
Jun 26
Too little size at the 5. With Love and Big Al, we really have no 5s at all. This is why I'm against Love. The player, that is. Don't reach for need.
Andy G (not verified)03:30pm
Jun 26
On a more Britt Robson-interested topic: I wonder if McCants survives the night as a TWolf. It would be disappointing to see him get packaged unnecessarily in a meaningless trade. If he truly can't stand the idea of being a reserve on the team, I guess he's expendable, but I still love the guy as a "microwave" of the bench and think he'd start to get more national attention in that role as we start winning more games. Unfortunately, I suspect we'll hear something like "There has been a trade. The Minnesota Timberwolves send the 31st pick and Rashad McCants to the Portland Trailblazers, for the 27th pick and cash considerations."
Patrick (not verified)03:45pm
Jun 26
On deciding whether to trade McCants: I think it depends who we take at #3. If we take Mayo, then we're likely to offer a team 34 & McCants because we'll be looking to get a big man and Rashad will be expendable. Given his comments about wanting more playing time, we cannot keep McCants if we draft Mayo. Rashad will be pissed that he'll get less playing time and being overshadowed by a more-hyped rookie, and he could turn into a colossal headache, which would also reduce his trade value. But if we draft Love, well, we probably keep McCants and either stand pat in the second round or package the two picks to move up for a SF (or still for a center if Twolves mgmt. think Love is a 3, which I don't believe they do). Basically, if we decide to go with Mayo, then we get the best deal possible for McCants, hopefully one that lands us DeAndre Jordan, who can block shots and rebound while Jefferson scores. I think Portland might be open to a trade like this at #13, as they're looking for backcourt help, or Philly at 16, who (I think) like McCants too (but might want to keep that pick and draft a big man for themselves).
Britt Robson04:03pm
Jun 26
I won't prematurely mourn the marginalization of McCants until I see how the draft plays out. But I still don't get why Foye is cherished so much more than McCants by this front office. There's a part of me that thinks if Shaddy had been groomed as a combo guard as assiduously as Foye has been he not only could handle point guard duties on a spot basis, but that it would assauge his ego and improve his overall game. But yes, Andy G, I too fear that this franchise will part with McCants, sooner or later, for quarters if not pennies or dimes on the dollar.
midlife crisis (not verified)04:21pm
Jun 26
Not to be cynical, but this is the same team that released Bobby Jackson to give Avery time to develop. Avery was already a bust, but it looked bad to dump a first round choice. Foye is even more dramatic. Foye + $1 mil = Roy. The moment he leaves, that story gets rerun. To choose McCants over Foye admits that Foye is actually no better than Shaddy, and he doesn't have mysterious upside as a PG. This is why Mayo, if selected, would come to town as a SG, and not a PG. Nothing can displace Foye... he is part of our young core that the country club says has 4 members while outside observers see only one.
stop-n-pop (not verified)04:51pm
Jun 26
I'm not saying this for the purpose evaluating whether or not the Wolves should select him, but OJ Mayo, should he come to the Wolves, will face one of the biggest expectation/reality gaps in the league and it will be a tough thing to live up to. Throughout the entire year, I'd bet that each and every Wolves fan has said to him/herself 2 things: "I wish we had a true point" or "I wish we had a true center". Unfortunately for Wolves fans, the best true point is a midget who got lit up by Rose in the tourney (Augustin) and the best true center is a 7 footer who shoots under 50% from the floor (Lopez). Following Beasley and the unattainable Rose, the BPA for the Wolves is either Mayo (I don't agree with this...I'm just stating the general take) or Love; both of whom duplicate a position the Wolves already have: combo guard and power forward. With Mayo, I've heard him referred to as a potential superstar, franchise cornerstone, can't miss prospect, and so on and so forth. Many people are expecting him to be the 2nd scorer opposite Big Al. When you look at him, he's an older player (for his year) who shoots well from 3, doesn't get into the lane as much as he should, and doesn't get to the line as much as he could. There is no guarantee that he can play point; there is no guarantee he could rebound; there is no guarantee that he could improve his turnover rate to be a functional lead guard in the NBA. Yet, here we are with the best pick the team will likely have in the entire rebuilding process and fans want a cornerstone. They want a superstar. They...well, it's a long haul from true points and true centers to where we are now. A suped up version of Randy Foye isn't going to bring back Brandon Roy; nor will he be Brandon Roy. Meanwhile, the other duplicate (Love), who also happens to be a bit undersized for his NBA position, came off a year where he put up amazing numbers for a Final Four team. His big plus in regards to the Wolves is not only is he a better player (younger, better numbers), but he plays in the frontcourt...which currently consists of Madsen, Toine, and Jefferson. I'm not for picking Love with the 3rd pick. I'm for getting Beasley or trading for the best package. My point here is that Mayo will neither live up to the pre draft in-season (and level headed) calls for a true point, nor will he give the team a significant upgrade over a guy who just a few months ago was being touted as 4th Quarter Foye. I'm sure Randy will handle Mayo's late game role in spectacular fashion. All of this says nothing of the fact that I don't think a single T-Wolves fan spoke the word Mayo in conjunction with the team's pick until the Rose/Beasley dream caming crashing down. I can understand a bit of revision (I've done a bit of my own with Love) if it is based on the admission that you completely misjudged/neglected a player's game (as I did with Love), but Mayo is Mayo is Mayo. He's on the path to Laettnerdom: a solid career seen through the context of fan-based expectations. If not Beasley, this team needs warm NBA-ready bodies and they need ot get as many as possible. Keeping Mayo doesn't make sense, to me, on so many levels; from talent to expectations to the value he could likely bring in return, to past personnel decisions to the current roster. Forget the crap about Foye and Roy. This time is different and the FO has shown that they are doing things differently in the post-KG era. Maximize resources or get the best player in the draft.
midlife crisis (not verified)05:43pm
Jun 26
The FO has played this hand extremely well, so far, but I still worry that the relentless push of Foye as cornerstone will affect their decision making. Of course, the best move is to have Beasley land in our lap at pick 3. A close second is dealing with Miami, though Riley may feel a little burned about the Davis/Blount pairing. I worry though, after the effective bluff of saying how great Mayo is, and having Seattle reinforce it by saying they won't trade pick 4 if the wolves don't pick Mayo, that we actually sit there and pick Mayo. In that case, only because he seems to have a better handle than Foye, do I bemoan the reluctance to part ways with our current tweener playing point. Mayo's high turnover rate had alot to do with his beginning of the season struggles, and his play over the last month was stellar. But if we pick Mayo and close the night with him still on the roster, I'll have another in a series of late June McHale induced migraines.
David Brauer (not verified)07:00pm
Jun 26
It's a liveblog. Why hold your tongue?!
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)07:54pm
Jun 26
A few things: Portland just got paid with Rush. That's EXACTLY the type of player that will fill out that roster. Look out for the Blazers. That's insane. What the hell is Indy doing with Bayless after picking up Ford? Look for the Wolves to move up to get Ajinca.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)07:57pm
Jun 26
Did you see that Zgoda quoted Hoiberg as saying they'll keep Mayo? That's why I think that they'll go for size. I still can't believe they don't walk away with Gallinari or Love...especially with New Jersey firing the first shot in the Lebron James sweepstakes today.
Britt Robson08:36pm
Jun 26
The way everybody is acting around here, OJ Mayo does indeed seem like he is going to stay.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:17pm
Jun 26
Holy crap. Bayless to Portland for Rush. Indy is on a roll tonight. I don't get that trade for Portland. Not at all. Not enough basketballs to go around with a player like Bayless.
Britt Robson08:26pm
Jun 26
Funny, I was just criticizing Indy as you were writing this. Is Bayliss that bad S+P? And if Rush is better than Bayliss, why didn't Indy just take him with their pick in the first place? One thing I do know, I'd rather have Ike Diogu than Jarrett Jack.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:35pm
Jun 26
I don't know if it's that Bayless is that bad as Portland will have Roy, Fernandez, Oden, and Aldridge. A shoot-first combo guard with a questionable ppr and who didn't exactly run an offense at Arizona seems a bit suspect...especially when they had a nice big guard who blended into the team at Kansas and was willing to do whatever it took to win. With Diogu, Pryz, Oden, the kid from Arizona...where are they going to put these guys? That being said, I have Bayless pegged as a bust because he's hopelessly inbetween positions and he doesn't have any sort of track record of being able to share the rock and run an offense. Even if he pans out as an average player, where do you put that type of guy on a roster like Portland's? There's not enough b-balls to go around. I had them pegged as going after Mayo or Rush. I thought they got a steal with Rush, a guy as I mentioned before that blends into a team. They have their tri-core, they needed some glue and they loaded up on another scorer. Here's hoping that this is Prichard's weakness.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:40pm
Jun 26
BTW: I guess we need no further evidence that everyone thinks this is a guards' league. A few more thoughts: The Nets just stole the Spurs' pick. The Wolves are in a pickle right now. There are guys like CDR and Chalmers out there as well as solid bigs like White and a few Euros. Do they pass up CDR/Chalmers and ride it out to the top of the 2nd or do they make a move and get the guy they want. I'm a big fan of getting what you want if you have the means so I kind of think they're playing with fire here. Especially with players like CDR and Chalmers on the board. How on earth can the best players on the 2 best college teams in the country still be on the board? CDR especially amazes me. 6'6" with long arms and a dribble drive game who can also make the spot up shot and the 3. The Wolves need to move on the guy.
Britt Robson08:49pm
Jun 26
Well, we know McHale's preference for winning pedigrees. On the other hand, if you leverage both your second-rounders for a swingman like CDR, what do you do about center? I know I quoted Hoiberg as mentioning free agents, but when I checked the board the biggest catch was Dasagna Diop, who will probably get more than the midlevel. I defer to you on college talent, but when you're getting to this stage in the draft don't you start thinking about need too? And don't the Wolves absolutely need a center? Hell if it takes to flyers to get it right, take two flyers on big men. That's my devil's advocacy anyway...
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:52pm
Jun 26
In the NFL I think that drafting for need works, but with the NBA, you have to go for BPA all the way down the board. The Wolves have Jefferson and Mayo. If Chalmers and CDR are there at 31 and 34, you take them and run away from the bank.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:50pm
Jun 26
Also, with Bayless, rebounding is an issue. I get that the Blazers have a bunch of guys who can hit the glass, but one of the reasons why a player like Rondo was so effective is because he can rebound his position. I know it's kind of nitpicky, but while Bayless can get to the line, he did so by having a high usage rate as well as taking a lot of shots. He also takes about 40% of his shots from range which means that he's a jack it up, drive it in kind of guy with an above optimum TORate. I just don't get how he'll work with Portland. Granted, Portland will be a good team, but with guys like Chalmers and Augustin out there, he just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially with them already having a great glue guy in Rush.
Patrick (not verified)08:53pm
Jun 26
Neither CDR nor Chalmers has the potential to be a quality starter in this league. That is why they aren't getting picked. With all due respect, S & P, I predicted this. They just aren't that athletic, and that damns them in the eyes of NBA scouts. I'd rather have Jordan.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:01pm
Jun 26
We'll have to write that one down. I'll bet you a t-wolves mug if we can find a good way to judge the results :) Either you can play or you can't. Those guys were the best players on the best 2 college teams in the country. I know that athleticism is important (as the Rockets just showed by taking a guy who can't play but who can jump), but good lord, CDR is better than Batum. Donte Greene may fall to the Wolves.
Patrick (not verified)09:07pm
Jun 26
I'll be happy to take you up on that. Guys like Ed O'Bannon and JJ Redick and other guys like Monta Ellis make me prefer athletes over college stars. I'm not trying to be a contrarian, just a talent evaluator. I agree with Britt that I hope we get a promising big man, preferably Jordan. Pekovic or Tomic would be acceptable in the second round, but I really want DeAndre. (Donte Green would be nice with a second rounder too).
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:09pm
Jun 26
Shoot me an email at stopnpop1@gmail.com and we can work something out. It will be interesting to see how it works out with these players.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:11pm
Jun 26
BTW: I want nothing to do with the 7 foot Gerald Green :)
Patrick (not verified)10:14pm
Jun 26
Well, now the seven foot Gerald Green can develop behind Kaman. It'll probably be a few years before he contributes, but I expect him to develop into a player along with Gordon. Devastating for a team that needs a center. I'd have preferred Jawai, Tomic, or even Hardin. I hope Miami gives us something for Chalmers.
Patrick (not verified)09:19pm
Jun 26
Check your email. This could be fun.
Andy G (not verified)08:41pm
Jun 26
I'll forever be convinced that Portland could have kept Roy and Oden, and still gotten Beasley from Miami. Obviously, I have no inside information on that, but it just seemed like they could've thrown Aldridge, Webster and Pryzibilla, with the #13 and taken back Blount's contract and Beasley. Who knows. That said, Bayless has big upside and I disagree that "there aren't enough balls to go around." Oden isn't a ball-dominating player, and Roy isn't a shoot-first player either. I think Portland upgrades with a bigtime shooter/scorer.
Patrick (not verified)08:47pm
Jun 26
S&P: I know you prefer stats, but watch Bayless' videos. They'll show that he's the epitome of what NBA guards are evolving toward (quick, great leapers, and shooters). Regardless of what position he plays, he'll do well because Roy can handle either backup position. Bayless will thrive in that system. It was another great acquisition by Pritchard, who really knows his stuff. I think Portland will be in the Western Conference finals before long.
Patrick (not verified)08:29pm
Jun 26
Bayless is the better player by far, a cross between Gilbert Arenas and Monta Ellis. Portland got another stud who is going to elevate that squad. They're going to be competitive very soon.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:18pm
Jun 26
I'm glad Fitzgerald asked that question. I'm still pissed about Casey too.
Andy G (not verified)09:08pm
Jun 26
Here's a prediction: Portland acquired Bayless to pair with other chips to get Beasley from Miami. Miami had that last-minute workout with Bayless (and Mayo) and Portland HAS to want Beasley. It makes too much sense. Also, why else would Portland acquire the #27 when they have too many players to begin with?
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:21pm
Jun 26
Portland has an amazing amount of assets. They could go all the way up top with that group of talent. They have Arthur and Bayless today as well as a solid set of bigs and...well, they could give the Heat all they want. If they do, the Wolves will have a front row seat as how a team that knows what it wants (and knows the best player in the draft) can go out and get it.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:42pm
Jun 26
Britt: Will you ask whoever you can if they have an agreement from Pekovic to come over? Have they talked to him much? Is he interested? Does he have a buyout? how much is it? Here's his bio: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nikola-Pekovic-1047/
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:43pm
Jun 26
If you want to, of course. I didn't mean it to sound pushy.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:44pm
Jun 26
Funny note about Pekovic. At DX they have his best case listed as Al Jefferson and the worst case as Rasho. Not quite as funny as when Randy Foye's upside player was listed as Mike James, but close.
wyn (not verified)09:47pm
Jun 26
thanks for the link brit! i'm shocked, SHOCKED that CDR has slipped to #34, not to mention chalmers. surprised to see portland take dorsey over both of them. SnP, i can't get that damn hoopus chat thing to work. the draft party was uneventful.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:48pm
Jun 26
Wyn: that chat thing is worthless. I've had trouble with it all night.
Andy G (not verified)09:51pm
Jun 26
So what happens to Bassy, Foye, Jaric & McCants? I don't understand that pick, especially if the Euro-big can't play for a couple years. We went 0/3 on centers that can play next year?
Patrick (not verified)10:03pm
Jun 26
The Chalmers pick doesn't make sense unless they intend to deal him or deal McCants and not re-sign Telfair. Given that Chalmers looks to be a mediocre NBA player at best, this is a disappointing pick. You've gotta go with Jordan or at least CDR given their upside vis-a-vis Chalmers. Who's going to play the middle for us next year? It won't be Pekovic.
Andy G (not verified)10:21pm
Jun 26
Yeah, the list of 6'1" NBA players who are better than average goes something like: Tony Parker Allen Iverson People on here are reporting the pick will be traded. I hope so. We don't need Chalmers at all, even if he's valued by some much higher than 34th overall.
Patrick (not verified)10:31pm
Jun 26
In my opinion, it's like drafting a guy whose upside resembles Tyus Edney instead of Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum. I'll just trust that McHale saw a terrible workout that suggested he will never be able to transform his athleticism into becoming a player like the other guys who have his caliber of athleticism and size. Let's hope we can flip Chalmers for something.
Andy G (not verified)11:44pm
Jun 26
I really hope Jordan was stoned and drunk at his workout in Minnesota, because nothing short of that justifies that f*ckup. We had nothing to lose (except a couple future 2nd rounders & cash).
Britt Robson09:49pm
Jun 26
Wyn-- Chalmers at 34. You should be happy, eh?
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:53pm
Jun 26
Very. Here's some info on Pekovic from Hollinger. It has some contract info: The second is Nikola Pekovic, a 22-year-old Montenegrin with a similar contract problem. Pekovic was little-known 12 months ago but absolutely dominated in the Euroleague this year. My numbers from 2008 suggest he could start for most NBA teams tomorrow -- 18.3 points and 12.0 boards per 40 minutes, with 51.4 percent shooting and a 17.09 PER. I take this with a bit of a grain of salt, because his numbers from 2007 were terrible, but only a bit -- if it weren't for contracts I'd have him rated third on my board. Yes, third. Unfortunately, you won't be hearing his name until much later. Pekovic signed a big-money deal with Panathinaikos in Athens -- reportedly for 4.5 million euros, which at the current exchange rate is about 300 billion dollars -- making it all but impossible for an NBA team to sign him under the rookie salary scale. As a result, he seems pegged for the early part of the second round. Nonetheless, if I'm the Timberwolves I take this guy at No. 31 before Adam Silver gets to the podium.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)09:54pm
Jun 26
BTW: Randy Foye just became the 3rd best guard on the team...if not the 4th.
Britt Robson10:07pm
Jun 26
Wow, great stuff S+P. I just announced it to the rest of the guys here and everybody is busily finding Hollinger. BTW, apparently Stan Van Gundy was on TV saying this guy was as much of a no-brainer as the first pick of Rose in the first round because you don't have to compete with the Europeans for a contract and you can wait on him while you have his rights. If this guys is as good as everybody says, how good does that Miami deal look now?
wyn (not verified)09:58pm
Jun 26
VERY happy mon friar. i must say that i've liked CDR better the whole time, but never expected chalmers to fall. he will be an absolute STEAL i'm trying to choose my caps wisely...
wyn (not verified)10:05pm
Jun 26
despite my appreciation for chalmers, our backcourt just got seriously crowded. foye/mccants/mayo/chalmers/telfair? not a lot of minutes there.
Britt Robson09:57pm
Jun 26
You're not pushing; I was going to ask it anyway. And I'll post something on the media grab with McHale before I leave here.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)10:04pm
Jun 26
Excellent. Also, you hit the nail on the head with the Chalmers take above. He's an amazing perimeter defender who can straight out shoot the ball, steal the ball, rebound, and he doesn't turn it over. Foye better produce or this guy will eat him up. This guy is a steal for the Wolves.
Nate (not verified)10:03pm
Jun 26
FYI: ESPN says: The Timberwolves are selecting Chalmers on behalf of the Miami Heat, according to a league source. Pat Riley wanted a point guard, and he got one. In fact, Chalmers is one of the most NBA-ready guards in the draft. He can shoot, he can defend and he's a clutch player. He's kind of a poor man's O.J. Mayo. Great draft night for Miami.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)10:07pm
Jun 26
Unless that means Mr. Beasley, I don't get that at all.
Nate (not verified)10:11pm
Jun 26
Unless Glen wants the money to help buy out the big guy's contract.
pdgirl (not verified)10:12pm
Jun 26
Multi-team maneuvering? We looking for cash or future picks? :( Miami doesn't draft again until 52... Miami sure doesn't have a big man we want. No way it has anything to do with Beasley.
wyn (not verified)10:12pm
Jun 26
well, looks like you're right about chalmers to miami. given my personal realization of the minutes crunch he would've created in minny, i understand. a return of 2 2nd rounders and cash is pretty good. that being said, if minnesota's done dealing, i'm disappointed. maybe i'm just a fan who likes to play fantasy gm, but the wolves really seem to lack creativity and vision as a front office (newsflash, right?) some of you may know, but i'm a gargantuan kevin pritchard fan. he's the best GM in the L. period. eagle ball-point period. the wolves brain trust was drafting from some serious power positions this year (3 in a 2 man draft, and the first 2nd rounder in a deep draft after the upper crust) and has a lot of holes to fill. yet, what we came away with is a potential star guard (no real complaint), a euro center who, given his contract situation, will not be here for a while if ever, a couple future 2nds and some cash. it'll take a while to really sink in and i'm just kinda rambling, but my gut says disappointment overall.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)10:15pm
Jun 26
I don't get this at-frickin'-all. There has to be something else here. Why draft for Miami when some of the players who were there were still there?
Andy G (not verified)10:05pm
Jun 26
Chalmers was projected by some to go Top 15, so I don't think he's a bad player, but he doesn't have upside and he's not a center. That pick did not make sense, unless it's traded here shortly. I guess if Pekovic can play here next year, the passing on Jordan makes some sense, but if not, we can pencil in Chris Richard for a year or two. Puzzling.
ODP (not verified)10:29pm
Jun 26
I am really sick of this garbage. With a lot of needs, and two opportunities to get lucky, we take Center who openly stated he doesn't like or want to play in the NBA, and a pg for another team for cash and future seconds. How does that help the team at all this year?
Cheezy B (not verified)10:46pm
Jun 26
I think Pekovik was a no brainer pick at 31. But I agree, we got lucky that a talent like Chalmers fell to us at 34 and we gave him away. I dont know the details yet but I cant imagine we are getting anything tasty from Miami. (Just saw it on ESPN, future 2nd rounder and cash, Lame) What do you think this means about our free agents? I think Gomes will be back, Smith prob too, Telfair is possible now that we gave Chalmers away for a bag of chips. We didn't address any needs, I could even see Snyder back too. I think we will find a stop-gap center either in free agency or a trade.
wyn (not verified)10:34pm
Jun 26
i guess it's time for me to sleep on this. i'm buying a home tomorrow, so i need my signing sleep. thanks for the thread brit. good to read everyone's comments. although i'm not terribly happy at first glance, i'll say this: mchale didn't really eff anything up. pekovic is a ways off, but is hig on potential, we didn't give away a very valuable 34 for free, and we got a potential star that should get fans excited. there are plenty of more needs to fill, but we have a lot of free agents and a long offseason ahead.
Andy G (not verified)10:48pm
Jun 26
Here's the problem with that trade: those future 2nd rounders are not likely to be as valuable as the 34 in this draft. Bill Walker & DeAndre Jordan were on the board, and by the time we pick those 2nd rounders, one of those two guys will be logging real minutes in the NBA. I'm happy with Mayo & Pekovic, but that last one was a missed chance.
Andy G (not verified)11:15pm
Jun 26
Another prediction, even though my Portland one hasn't come to fruition: Wolves will sign Longar Longar as an undrafted free agent. He's big, athletic, played in a physical conference, and he's local and will attract 15 extra season tickets from Rochester. I'd be excited to see him try to defend NBA bigs. I don't know how he measured at the combine stuff, but I've seen him in person enough to know he jumps out of the gym. Worth a shot as a 6'10" UFA.
jianfu (not verified)11:30pm
Jun 26
Honestly, it boggles my mind that a team with absolutely zero depth up front has now passed on a uniquely skilled big man in two consecutive drafts (Noah, and now Love). That's four consecutive lottery picks on off guards, for those keeping track at home. We are the Detroit Lions of the NBA. And when will I ever learn that the Wolves only talk about making moves in the draft? And after that 2nd round ordeal, I come away feeling ownership just doesn't care. I apologize for being grumpy. But overall, I just find tonight a real dud.
midlife crisis (not verified)11:34pm
Jun 26
This is a page right out of Red McCombs book. How to pull money out of a professional sports franchise. The last two drafts, Taylor has apparently told the troops that he wants the picks turned into money. That concept doesn't come from a person in the FO trying to build a team. Trading down for 2nd round picks is just giving up value for crap... or in this case, a wad of cash. The center, too, is someone the timberwolves will never have to pay. And please don't think this means that we have cap flexibility. If SA can't attract the big name free agents, The TWolves never will. I'm just waiting to see what Mayo will turn into. Right now I'm sure they're considering how far down they can trade. I'm sure McHales disappointment with the Love pick was that he wouldn't be able to save enough cash by trading down for him. Maybe Taylor will go for it if they collect more compensation.
Nate (not verified)11:44pm
Jun 26
Thanks for sticking it out, Britt. I'm curious and I'm staying up! You should ask McHale why a team like Portland stockpiles picks and actually drafts players, while the wolves decide to sell picks for cash. Why don't we do what Portland does? They have so many young players, isn't that what we should be doing?! ugh. Who the hell plays in the middle next year? Gomes and Smith? ugh.
Tim (not verified)11:48pm
Jun 26
Mayo just traded for Love and Miller, WOW
jianfu (not verified)11:44pm
Jun 26
Yo! ESPN reports: Mayo, Jaric, Walker, Buckner to Grizz for Love, Miller, Cardinal, Jason Collins !!! I take it all back.
Steve J (not verified)11:48pm
Jun 26
McHale got his boy...espn.com is saying Mayo, Jaric, Buckner, and Walker to Memphis for Love, Mike Miller (9 Mil this year, 9.75 next), Brian Cardinal (6.3 this year, 6.75 next), and Jason Collins (6.2 this year and then off the books). Miller washes with Toine's salary (huge upgrade), Buckner + Jaric are pretty close to Cardinal and Collins, however we just shaved a year off of the $14mil we would have paid Marko and Greg. All in all, nto bad, however Mayo is probably going to be a second-team all NBAer knowing our luck
Erik (not verified)12:01am
Jun 27
if mayo is a star and / or love is a flop... this could be the last straw for this ridiculous obsession of mine well, chad ford is on espn saying it was a good move, and many posters here like love, so i guess i will wait and see
jianfu (not verified)12:00am
Jun 27
No pun intended, but I love this deal. (Still pissed about Chalmers, who would actually fit now, but whatever). Not sure exactly what Memphis is doing...
Andy G (not verified)12:00am
Jun 27
Let's hope that's just a report. Holy shit. We traded OJ Mayo, and didn't even get our 1st Rounder from the Clips back. Are we sure we can only get three slow, white guys from Memphis? Maybe they could sign Bobby Hurley out of retirement and include him in the deal. Memphis was right with us at the bottom of the league last year, and we're really coveting their non-Rudy Gay/Mike Conley pieces? Yuck. I hope Love drops another 15 lbs and learns to play the small forward, or that is one helluva disaster pick. Couple it with passing on Jordan at 34 and words can't describe what just happened to the fate, and more specifically, the potential fate, of this franchise.
pagingstanleyroberts (not verified)12:28am
Jun 27
I don't mind the trade. If they really think Love will be a better pro than Mayo -- and that's definitely a possibility -- then why not dump some salary? They got rid of their three worst contracts and got a pretty good player in Miller (who could either be a big trading piece in the next couple of years or stick around because he's originally from South Dakota), and the player they must've wanted (Love). As Britt said, at least it's a consistent philosophy. If it doesn't work out, then we're right back here next year, and we still have 3 decent salaries to use in trades while shedding a year of cap purgatory. I don't deny that all of this rests on the Wolves' opinion that Love will be a better pro than Mayo and that their current perimeter players will improve. That's difficult to say at this point.
paul (ikrushlots) (not verified)12:07am
Jun 27
I feel like throwing up. I like Kevin Love. I think he'll be a good player. In fact, I think he was the fourth best player in the draft. However, OJ Mayo is special. I think he is just as good as Rose and Beasley, and this was a three player draft, not two. Mayo is a great shooter (Ray Allen shooting skills), has a midrange game like Rip Hamilton (which is rare these days), explosive, a very good passer for a guy who can score like he does, and to top it off, he plays excellent defense and has a competitive streak. This combination of skills and traits is rare. Let's assume Love ends up being as good as Mayo (which I doubt he will). Now you've got two very good PFs who do the exact same thing and both have trouble sliding to center. WTF??? I could understand if they went after a PF who was versatile and could slide to SF or C, but Love is almost exactly the same as Al. On top of everything else, the new rules will make Mayo even better than he already is. Damn, I am getting madder and madder as I type. If I was Banner, I would have turned into the Hulk by now.
Andy G (not verified)12:19am
Jun 27
Yeah, this is much more redundant than McCants + Foye. Maybe we'll trade Al Jefferson. Some think he's overvalued. Let's hope we do something, because small-ball goes nowhere, especially when you don't have any All-Stars in your backcourt. Alright, on the bright-side, we can start our offense with 75-foot outlet passes to Brewer. Hopefully they implement this into our regular offense.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)12:33am
Jun 27
This is a brilliant draft. Folks, here's what they accomplished tonight: 1- They got rid of Marko's deal 2- They got rid of Toine and his deal 3- They got rid of Buckner's deal 4- They picked up the best big in the draft 5- They picked up a legit NBA 3 (from the area no less; South Dakota) who can stretch the hell out of a sagging defense 6- They picked up the best Euro big in the draft and stashed him away 7- They picked up an expiring contract for a center When Collins comes off the books (1 more year at $6 mil), they can then roll that money into an offer for a buyout with Pekovic. They shave a year and some dollars off of Marko's deal (which is amazing in itself) which opens them up as major players in the post 09/10 free agent season. Oh, they still have the Heat and Celtic pick in next year's 1st. This isn't going to happen in a single year, but the Wolves FO just unburdened the squad from its most hurtful contracts and players while building a solid foundation that can be added to without getting rid of future picks and with (hopefully) a Euro supplement.
Steve J (not verified)12:22am
Jun 27
It's getting pretty late, so I'm not 100% sure this isn't just the lack of sleep talking, but: I wasn't sold on Mayo on this squad. Sure, he'll end up likely being an all star at some point, but I truly think his ceiling is that of Gilbert Arenas...I'm not sure you can win a title with that kind of player being your #1 option. I could be dead wrong, however I just don't think it's worth diminishing Big Al's role on the team to get a big name off-guard when we still haven't seen all of what Foye can do. I'll admit that if it were a flat Mayo-for-Love swap I'd be vomiting all over my keyboard, however picking up a known quantity in Mike Miller and dumping the Jaric and Walker deals is almost too good to pass up. Seriously, if someone offered before the draft to trade down two spots for Miller AND dump the Jaric deal I would have done it in a heartbeat. If the "Love is the best big man passer since Bill Walton" hype is true, we could see a Wolves team that RUNS for stretches with athletes like McCants, Foye, and Sebby. Compliment that with Big Al in the half court and Miller on the wing, and we're a baby Suns team for the next year or so until we can add a legit center.
paul (ikrushlots) (not verified)12:26am
Jun 27
Steve, I've watched a lot of Mayo and a love of Arenas, and Mayo is a much different player. The most important thing is Mayo is a natural passer and has an intuitive feel for the game. Arenas is a scorer who forces himself to pass.
Steve J (not verified)12:42am
Jun 27
Paul, I watched quite a bit of Mayo (just this season, none of his HS games) and I agree with you on that point, I'm just trying to justify this whole mess in my head. I just don't think he's the next CP3 or even D-Williams, and the closest comparison I could come up with for a scoring PG who has a knack for turning it "off" for stretches was Agent Zero. However, I still get a weird Kobe-esque "fake" vibe from Mayo. I read that he told a reporter to "make sure you tell people I'm humble" in an interview once. It almost makes me think he forced himself to be Mr. Teammate at USC to keep his stock high. Thanks for keeping me on track, even though I think the Wolves are better off in the long run with this deal.
Jackson (not verified)12:54am
Jun 27
I'm feeling pretty good about that draft. Love is an interesting player with some real skills. Mayo is the more commercial, popular player because he is flashier. Love's stuff is a little harder to appreciate for the common man. But getting Miller and Collins? That is nice. Outside shooting and a real center? Sounds good to me. Even an aging Collins is better than what we have now, which is no center. So the question becomes, what will be our starting lineup for next year? Al Jefferson, Mike Miller, Jason Collins, Love, Foye. ? Is that for real? Does that sound ok? That could work. I kind of like it. Collins is doing his center minimalist thing. Jefferson is being the upcoming fancy guy around the basket. Love is passing around and playing smart ball and making everyone better. Miller is shooting from the perimeter and hitting big threes and keeping defenses honest. And Foye is just progressing and bringing the ball up and making basic, sound decisions. I think it sounds good. Brewer and McCants off the bench for energy. It could work.
Andy G (not verified)01:06am
Jun 27
Believe me, I'm pulling for that lineup, since it means Love is a 3, and not a 5, but: Foye Miller Love Jefferson Collins is the most unathletic starting lineup in NBA History, or at least my lifetime. I suspect the opening day lineup will be: Foye Brewer Miller Jefferson Love. Not a bad offensive group, but you aren't going anywhere in May or June with that small front-line.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)01:16am
Jun 27
At the beginning of the year I had a post over at Hoopus about what would make a successful season for the Wolves. #1 was a high draft pick. Mission accomplished. #2 was to clear the salaries of as much dead weight as possible. This trade gets rid of nearly $36 million in worthless salary. While the Wolves bring on just as much to make the deal work, Miller will play, Collins will play and expire, and Cardinal...well, he sucks but he sucks for a year less than Marko. The Wolves were never going to be a good team next year. It just wasn't going to happen. The Wolves were never going to pick up a franchise player in this draft not named Beasley or Rose. Next year they are going to be another non-playoff team. They may even suck. However, they will have cleared massive amounts of salary and crappy players while taking the best big available, the best big Euro available and setting themselves up with 2-3 1st rounders, an expiring deal, and young players to take a run at the player they want/need in next year's draft. They've set themselves up to bring Pekovic over after next season while being major free agent players the year after that. Meanwhile, they took the best and youngest players available for a young core that will be built around and supplemented.
Wim (Belgium) (not verified)06:01am
Jun 27
But what do you do with Love then SnP? You got 2 very talented players who are both power forwards. You would like to play him at the 3? That I would like, but they're gonna play him at 4, so what doe we do when Pekovich comes over? How would you share frontcourt minutes. (Give that we don't use Love as 3, cuz I really think they won't). Something like this? PF: Jefferson (15), Love (33) C: Pekovich (28), Jefferson (20) Don't like the 20 minutes Jefferson and Love will be together on the court ... I wonder if those 20 minutes could fit in the small and fast philosphy or if it's just gonna be like last year, small and slow...
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)08:20am
Jun 27
I think Jim Stack put it best: the guy measured out as Al Horford. Would Horford have been the pick if he were available in this year's draft? Would he be viewed as unathletic? Would people have trouble with him sharing time at the center with Jefferson? The Wolves got a 19 year old big man who was the best big in the draft. 19. He was the player of the year in the toughest conference in the land. He had off-the-charts efficiency rates that compare favorably to players like the aforementioned Horford. You play him in the frontcourt with Big Al and you roll with the punches.
Britt Robson12:46am
Jun 27
Paul-- The only way this trade doesn't work for me is if Mayo is indeed a franchise type player. I have no idea if he is or not. But if he is, and Love is merely solid, or worse, it could be a bad deal. But that is just about the only way it can be a bad deal, because that's really the only thing the Wolves gave up.
Andy G (not verified)01:08am
Jun 27
Also, Mayo's pride in his defense was really a selling point for me in the last moments leading up to the draft. Everyone who has been around the guy can't say enough about the pride he takes in working hard and being a complete player. He'd be a great role model for many years. Maybe he'll rub off on Rudy Gay and help him become an all-around force in Memphis. Good for them. They deserved a break after the crappy Gasol trade. They found a willing donor in McHale.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)12:10am
Jun 27
This is highway robbery. This is right up there with the Laker/Gasol deal. The Wolves cleared out the Jaric contract while getting an expiring deal (Collins) a legit NBA starter (Miller) and a player that was at least equal to if not better than Mayo. They shaved money and years with Marko's deal while getting a solid starter and a solid pick. This is a great deal. This makes up for the Chalmers mess and then some. Britt: If you go over to the Strib, you have Grandpa Sports quoting Taylor as saying this: "Our people thought that Mayo had far more upside than Love," Wolves owner Glen Taylor said. "And very important was the fact that Fred played for Tim Floyd at Iowa State, and we knew Floyd [who coached Mayo at Southern California] was going to give an honest scouting report on Mayo." ...somebody's not on the same page as everyone else here. I like the end results but something is goofy here. Did Hoiberg jump the gun and try to force McHale's hand with Mayo? How on earth do they start scheduling a presser for Mayo and the Strib and PiPress send all their columnists out with "Mayo's the guy" reports (as well as real news guys like Zgoda), and then pull a 180 like this? Did McHale pull the trigger on his own?
midlife crisis (not verified)12:25am
Jun 27
This is only highway robbery if the players do turn out to be equal talents. I like your approach, and you are certainly on a different level of hoops knowledge than myself, but this isn't all one way. The Walker contract is also expiring, and it's a giant. Walker can actually play, too, which might be fun for them. Jaric has a stinker of a contract, but not compared to Cardinal's. It's a year longer, but Jaric offers a great deal more on the court than Cardinal. I'm happy with Miller, but what about Gomes and last years pick? Although I'm happy that our new tweener plays in the front court, I'm bummed that'll we'll all be year next, desperate for draft magic. I don't think this cast gets us the 20 extra wins.
Doogie (not verified)12:11am
Jun 27
Britt - How can you like this deal?...and I like Love a lot, but to not get Conley Jr, Gasol, their #1 next yr, or even Crittendon is ridiculous...Mike Miller has 2 yrs left on his deal unless I'm missing a team option...this team is 4 yrs away from being good...all Miller does is screw up their draft position next yr...maybe Mayo didn't want to be here, but they had to get more...Chris Wallace, in my mind, is Joe Dumars compared to McHale.
Patrick (not verified)12:40am
Jun 27
I agree with Andy G - this is a terrible deal that relegates us to mediocrity for years to come unless Love becomes the first ever short, fat, slow, white guy ever to become an NBA star. Britt is right that Miller is a legitimate pro, but he isn't that much of an upgrade over Gomes, and he might or might not be here in a few years when/if the Wolves improve toward playoff contention. The other problem with Miller is that he'll help us win a few games next year - games that will hurt our lottery position. To make up for not taking the best player available this year, we need lottery luck next year, but Miller hurts our chances of having lottery luck because we probably won't be a complete bottom feeding team next year. Looks like we've become the Milwaukee Bucks or New Jersey Nets. Thanks, Kevin & Glen.
Steve J (not verified)12:46am
Jun 27
Patrick, I'm not sure if you saw the draft, but Love dropped 15-20lbs since the NCAA's and doesn't look very fat to me. Also, he's 6'10", so he's not exactly short. And while Love may never be an NBA star, Larry Bird was a pretty slow white guy, and he did ok. I'm not trying to say Love will be anything like Bird, I'm just saying that Bird was very much a slow, white NBA star.
Stop-n-Pop (not verified)12:51am
Jun 27
The only way this doesn't work is if Mayo is a franchise guard. The Wolves unloaded their entire cache of bad contracts and picked up exactly the type of player they needed the most: a perimeter proficient 3 who could stretch the defense. They got *exactly* the type of player they needed from the Grizz. No Lowry, no Crittendon...nope, they got exactly what they needed and the Grizz took their contracts. They lose 2-3 mil between Collins and Walker with expiring deals this year, but they save a year on Jarics' deal...which is in the year where they'll be able to make a big move in the free agent market as well as bringing over Pekovic.
saudagg (not verified)01:13am
Jun 27
Awful. Simply awful. I'd go on further, but other people have spelled it out better than I would. Just a terrible deal. Love/Al frontline will get destroyed. Yippee! Pardon my language, but fuck McHale and his boy crush on Love. Idiot.
Patrick (not verified)12:55am
Jun 27
Steve, I take your points, and you detected my hyperbolic disses of Love. First of all, I don't dislike Love. The thing is, there's never been a player with Love's body type and skin color (except maybe Bird, whose body, I would argue was a lot different from Love's) who has been even a remotely good NBA player. Even Dirk has a long, athletic body. Love looks like a more skilled Tractor Traylor to me. If we'd have gotten the fifth pick in the lottery, I'd have probably been fine selecting Love. But trading Mayo - a guy with legitimate star quality and who could fill a need for our team - is almost too much to stomach. All in all, it feels like we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, having traded Mayo, passed on an available DeAndre Jordan, and having selected a foreign player who has stated that he doesn't like the NBA and might not ever play in it. Tonight might make the Roy-Foye deal look like a victory for MN.
Andy G (not verified)12:57am
Jun 27
And take back everything I have written tonight if they play Love at the 3. But all reports from the brass have indicated it's a front line of Jefferson and Love. Bird didn't play center, and neither should Love.
Sulla (not verified)05:53am
Jun 27
Love isn't 6'10. W/out shoes on, he's 6'7.75 -- a full inch shorter than a shoeless Al Horford. Love showed up at the pre-draft combine with some big-ass, 1.75''-soled elevator shoes. Unless he plans on wearing those things in games...
Andy G (not verified)12:44am
Jun 27
I'm trying to make rational points, but that draft got progressively worse after the initial good move of drafting OJ. I like Love as a player, but on the radio this week, McHale and Wittman made clear that Love + Jefferson are a big-enough front line for this league, and I disagree with this. I hope their better-qualified brains are right, and I'm wrong. I am one of the last in the McHale-bashing line, but here's my take on this draft: 1) I don't care about Mike Miller. Nobody considers us a playoff team (let alone contender) right now, so getting a couple years out of a quality vet that will take Brewer's minutes doesn't interest me as a fan. Plus, Memphis sucked with Miller last year, and we always bitch about Rudy Gay over Randy Foye. Well...if Gay is so great, I'm not sure who he's playing with to match our win total of 22. 2) Love plays Jefferson's position. Last year, we found out the hard way that this position is not center. Love should now back up Jefferson, and we need to sign a center and be happy with depth at the 4. 3) We passed on DeAndre Jordan at 34. This is the most upsetting part of the entire draft, as he has Dwight Howard-potential. Maybe he'll never reach it; maybe he'll reach some of it; maybe he'll reach all of it. There was no risk at 34, and instead, we let the Clips take that tiny gamble with a Powerball payout. That pisses me off more than anything. 4) I hope the dealing isn't done, and I hope they use that frickin money they got for Chalmers and sign Pekovic over here NOW. We still don't have a center, and I'd at least be happy if we got this guy soon. He got rave reviews, and it's the lone bright spot on an otherwise colossal disaster of a night. All season long, people complained on this site about Jefferson playing center, and I was quiet about it--figuring that it didn't matter because McHale surely realized the problem and would address it in the off-season. If Pekovic isn't over here, we have exactly 0 additional centers on the roster. 5) I actually like Love, like most people, but it's a fit-thing here. We traded Kevin F*cking Garnett and decided to rebuild around a different power forward. With the highest pick we'll ever have in this process, we ended up using it to get another power forward. Love + Jefferson is too small, and too unathletic to guard Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Tyson Chandler, Greg Oden, Shaquille O'Neal, Dwight Howard...I'll stop before I barf. 6) Let's hope Pekovic saves this draft. He sounds like a stud.
Andy G (not verified)12:54am
Jun 27
I guess I'll correct myself--we have 1 additional center in Jason Collins. I don't know much about him, other than that he was the major problem when New Jersey tried to guard Shaq in those Finals series'. Hardly something to blame on Collins, since nobody could guard Shaq back then, but it's just my only memory of him. He doesn't get much publicity, so I assume he's nothing special. Also, I loved Chad Ford's review of this trade on espn. I'm trying my best to quote him verbatim, but it was something like: "I think Minnesota gets the better end of this trade...Kevin Love is probably never going to be an All-Star, and OJ Mayo is certainly the best player in this deal, but..."--WHAT? There is no "but." That's it. We had the best player in the deal and traded him for a guy who will probably never make All-Star teams. Nuff said. Love will be a solid starter for a number of years. I think Mayo will be a Sam Cassell-type at worst, and a Ray Allen-type at best. Anything between those guys means All-Star teams and a lot of winning. Especially when they get paired with a quality big man.
Wim (Belgium) (not verified)05:33am
Jun 27
In hope of not being redudant, these 3 posts are exactly what I thought. The most important number on Collins' stat page is this one: age, 29. So basically all they did with adding Miller and Collins is makeing sure we improve *some* games, but no way enough to get even in the playoffs. + financial things. I've been a quite heavy defender of Foye because at the time it was not clear to most people wether Foye or Roy would be the better. This is the second year we basically traded down and only gotten financial benefit. It seems more and more clear we're not going for a championship here, especially with how the blazers are doing things.. We started with 3, 31 en 34 and got Love, cash and Pekovich (and 2 crappy 2nd round picks) Portland started with nr 13 and got Bayless AND Darrell Arthur .. 2 lottery-talent players ... come on. All the talk about packing the 2 picks to maybe get someone like CDR .. both Jordan and CDR are there and they just flat out pass on them TWICE and then THROW AWAY Chalmers ... Ok I'm raving, sorry, it's off my chest I'll go quietely :)
Wim (Belgium) (not verified)05:36am
Jun 27
Forgot Blazers also got Omer Asik, which is probably equilly worthy as Pekovich...
Patrick (not verified)01:07am
Jun 27
To follow up on Andy G's excellent post, the problem with this draft is that we didn't fill either of our primary needs, PG or C. We had a potential franchise PG, Mayo, and traded him for a PF, which happens to overlap with our only legitimate star, Jefferson, whom we're building this franchise around. Love isn't big enough to play center or athletic enough to play small forward. I was a vocal proponent of moving back into the first round to select Jordan to give us a low-risk, high-reward potential solution to our Center position problem. Well, something even better happened: Jordan fell to us at 31 AND 34, where we could've selected him without even having to give him a guaranteed contract. Instead, McHale passed on Jordan, presumably because he thinks Love can play center. I think we'll regret this decision. And even if Jordan becomes a bust, the principle of the matter is frustrating: not gambling on top talent in the second round is a serious problem of this franchise. We've never gambled on the Monta Ellis', Gilbert Arenas', and NIck Van Exel types who have fallen into the second round. These picks should be used for talented players who COULD become rotation or better players. Miller does eat into Brewer's minutes and therefore his development. This is not going to help move our franchise forward.
Andy B (not verified)06:55am
Jun 27
I see Love playing the 3, with Jefferson and Collins at the 4 and 5. I like the possibility of big lineups. Also, if this is not going to work (love not quick enough) and it is Love and Jefferson, if this tandem is being exposed down low, we have a legit Center to come in for next year and a center waiting in Europe. I like Mike Miller a lot. He will open up spacing for Jefferson. I just don't know how to get minutes for Miller, Gomes and Brewer off the bench.
McCleak (not verified)01:09am
Jun 27
I think this is a very good trade for the Wolves (which would have been made better with Mario Chalmers in the back or DeAndre Jordan in the front, alas). For starters, the Wolves have finally, finally, taken care of that back-court jam. They only have Foye, Snyder, McCants, and presumably Telfair in the back. Judging by 82 games, Miller should be their 3 (he's 4 points better on PER, and is +2.2 points in +/- at the 3, versus -3.5 points at the 2). However, he's listed as 2 by ESPN (and most mentions of him seem to say shooting guard). Detractors seem to forget that a killer 3 shot is always highly desired by playoff teams at the deadline. Considering it like buying an empty lot of land, and selling it when development takes off next door. You could have probably gotten a lot more if you had held onto it (in this case holding onto Miller for a hypothetical championship 4 years from now), but selling it before then isn't a bad choice at all. As for Love, I'm not entirely sold that he's only a 4. People who know more about college basketball can tell me, I'm sure, but it seems like he has the height and body weight to play center. One thing that concerns me, oddly, is the cap space. While it's nice for the Wolves to have finished cleaning house, I noticed that Glen Taylor is going to save something like $8 million over the life of the contracts (this math is top-of-the-head, so it's probably a bit off). I hope this isn't a sign that Taylor is looking to carve up roster costs.
Nate (not verified)01:34am
Jun 27
did McHale ever come down?
Wim (Belgium) (not verified)01:58am
Jun 27
Britt, Do I remember it correctly that when you asked McHale about the chronical lack of perimeter defense he answered he had no clue where that was coming from. Well, if you trade a PG and a SG that are known for good defense ... and you then trade them both ... that kinda explains it doesn't it... Absoluty don't like that trade... Was already drooling over a combination of Best ball handler + worst ball handler (Chalmers + McCants) to substitute the other combination of the 2 mediocre ballhandlers (Foye + Mayo). McHale in my eyes better prey Love is a legitimate center in the NBA... would at least have liked to get 1 young player. What's the use of Miller for us? Except for trade chips ... I feel like McHale again fails to have a plan for a championship. Miller cannot contribute to a championship because by the time the young guys are good he's gonna be away... Trading away Chalmers, who is a first round talent, and passing on CDR, who fills a huge need for us ... for 2 2ndrounders in a much lesser draft next year is beyond understanding for me...
Andy G (not verified)02:02am
Jun 27
The handling of the 34th pick will go down as one of McHale's all-timers, if not the all-timer. I'm not exactly sure which guys after 33 will have quality careers, but I suspect between CDR, Chalmers, Jordan, and Bill Walker, we'll have someone to point to as much better than cash for Glen Taylor's pocket. I personally wanted Jordan, and also liked Walker. Others loved CDR and Chalmers. The biggest point is that we took none of those players and opted for future 2nd Round picks that we'll probably then swap for cash.
Wim (Belgium) (not verified)03:07am
Jun 27
I was closing my eye and quitely saying CDR CDR CDR CDR.. but I was ready for hearing Jordan and jumping up in delight for that name as well. When I heard Chalmers I was like .. huhn... Then I let it sink in and thought about it... Mayo at number 3 ... Best player available. Does little fit a positional need but does fit a little bit of a functional need (perimeter scoring). Then second round a Center prospect and a PG that can play perimeter D .. and it kinda sunk in ... Did McHale just fill two needs with those 2 2nd round picks ..... Yes I believe he did ... Hurray for McHale. Then I got up this morning (by the time of the 34rd pick it was 5 am here and I had to get upf or work at 8 am) and saw the two trades and I was like -_- Why'd you have to trade Chalmers .. Love I kinda expected but Chalmers ...
Andy B (not verified)06:49am
Jun 27
Wim, Andy G You do not remember the conversation Britt had with McHale about "Perimeter defending" correctly. If my memory is correct McHale knew exactly what Britt was referring to and said it was something they were working on and hoped to improve upon. I certainly would have liked to seen CDR at 34, but I am assuming McHale kind of ran out of potential roster spots with the players he wants to resign and might be hoping to get another 31 out of the deal in the future. That 31 this year was apparently worth quite a bit. Chalmers might also have been good, but I can't get too worked up over Jordan. This may have been a deep draft, but I suspect the drafts also get deeper each year as they get analyzed in greater detail by more and more people. The fact is that the pick was still 34 and not too many picks at 34 work out to be worth that much. I cannot believe anyone would say that this trade will go down as one of McHales biggest blunders - that is just ludicrous. And not only because McHale has made som many blunders in the past. In my opinion, yesterday has shown that McHale is working hard to put together a roster and continues in a series of astute moves since the KG trade. The roster going into next year is promising and exciting. They will be improved over last year and very exciting to watch.
jesse (not verified)04:14am
Jun 27
This trade makes me angry. There is NO way to KNOW how good a player is going to be. But I beleive you can have strong hunches and weak hunches. My hunch on Mayo is he's gonna be a star in the NBA. And it's a strong one.
Ray M (not verified)09:37am
Jun 27
By that logic you should love the trade because we already know that Mike Miller is awesome and he's proven it year after year. He lead his team in rebounding, shoots 40% from 3, knows how to pass, defend, and he never takes a bad shot. The Wolves are going to be able to space players out all over the court and I expect to see lots of slashing buckets from Foye and Brewer, 3's from Love and Miller, and easy buckets for Jefferson. Interior defense could be a problem but I'm not ready to sell Love short just yet. Ben Howland loved him and he knows how to coach defense.
Andy B (not verified)06:39am
Jun 27
Went to bed with Mayo and woke up with a little Love. How can that not make a person happy. First impression is that I like the Trade. But, what really gets me is how accurate S&P was in stating the past few months that McHale was rebuilding the Celtics team of the 80s. I read Souhan this morning and he had the Wolves starting Telfair, Foye, Miller, Jefferson and Love. That does not look like the 80s Celtics and if this is the starting lineup on opening day, Wittman will not last till Christmans. Try, Foye, McCants, Love, Jefferson and Collins. That looks more like the Celtics and we'll see how close Love can come to filling Larry Birds shoes. Obviously, even McHale must know that Love is not Larry Bird, but he is a good shooter, passer and someone described as foremost as a "smart" player who knows how to play. With Miller, Telfair, Brewer and Gomes waiting on the Bench, how can you not be excited about the Wolves roster and this trade? I don't believe Mayo will be a star in this league. He might be better than Love and he will be a good shooter, but Love and Mayo have about the same chance of being stars in this league, in my opinion. I do wish that the Wolves kept 34 and drafted CDR. But, otherwise, this was a good day for the Wolves, if only for shedding Walker, Buckner and Jaric. As Souhan did say, McHale has shown at least the recent ability to trade away bad contracts.
Levi (not verified)07:15am
Jun 27
Geez, what a soap opera. I love the egg on Sid Hartmann's face, his column this morning opines that there was no doubt that the Wolves really wanted Mayo all along, blather, blather. And that McHale was really glad to have Greg Buckner under contract because "he was a great leader". So instead of Hoiberg's connection to Tim Floyd (Mayo's coach) providing the inside track, it turns out that McHale's knuckle biting lust for Love overruled in the end (as did Taylor's penchant for saving money, or has he figured out that he can make an easy million just bartering a draft choice?). Unless Love turns out to be the second coming of Larry Bird, in my opinion the Wolves have given up what appears to be their best chance for many years to come at drafting a "franchise" player. Oh, and nice seeing you, Greg Buckner and good luck. You were a "great leader" -- but Brian Cardinal is going to be McHale's new "great locker room guy". Watching Mayo, I too felt a Kobe-esque vibe. Somehow, I just didn't see him and McCants working things out. Nor did I detect any excitement over being selected by the Timberwolves (but then, really, who could), more like resignation. Interesting that Britt notes McCants gong out to shoot baskets after the pick was announced. Was that Shaddy relieving some tension -- or saying, "Hey, look at me! I'm not dead yet." So let's think about this. The Wolves' biggest needs were center and point guard. Did they get any help? I don't think so. Birds have brains. But I'm not so sure about Wolves.
JPK (not verified)12:44pm
Jun 27
After a night to think about it, I believe the wolves are taking a consistent approach to improving this club and the deal makes sense for them. As SNP points out, the wolves really dumped some salary and freed themselves up in 2010. Plus, I'd say there is at least a 50% chance Love is a better pro than Mayo. Go to espn.com and look at Hollinger's analysis of draft prospects. He has a pretty good track record with projecting prospects and Love rates MUCH higher than Mayo. Mayo has generated a lot of hype, but so far hasn't really backed it up on the court. Plus he clearly wasn't thrilled about playing in MN. Minnesota has invested a lot of time in developing young players the last few years, McCants, Foye, Brewer, etc. Why throw all of that away for another young player who needs to be developed? This team has already hit the bottom and they are now beginning their ascension to the top of the west. It isn't going to happen overnight, but if you look how they've positioned themselves, 2010 could be the year this team is playoff bound and if they add a top Euro center to the mix and can go after a stud free agent that year, they could contend for a championship in 2011-2012. This team will likely have between 30 & 40 wins next year and will be learning to play together. We will get to see how the tandem of Love and Jefferson works out. Personally, the only issue for me is defense, big Al must continue to improve. Offensively, Love and Jefferson may be the most lethal big man combo in the league in a couple of years. And if by 2010 this wolves team is still at the bottom of the west. It'll be very easy to start over because they have rid themselves of all the bad contracts on their books. As hard as it is, let's give McHale and company the benefit of the doubt and see if the plan comes to fruition in 2010. (And if you want to blast McHale, then at least give Hoiberg the benefit of the doubt :) Thanks Britt for the coverage!
lingerie wholesale (not verified)07:43pm
Jul 30

That looks more like the Celtics and we'll see how close Love can come to filling Larry Birds shoes. Obviously, even McHale must know that Love is not Larry Bird, but he is a good shooter, passer and someone described as foremost as a "smart" player who knows how to play. Minnesota has invested a lot of time in developing young players the last few years, McCants, Foye, Brewer, etc. Why throw all of that away for another young player who needs to be developed? This team has already hit the bottom and they are now beginning their ascension to the top of the west. It isn't going to happen overnight, but if you look how they've positioned themselves, 2010 could be the year this team is playoff bound and if they add a top Euro center to the mix and can go after a stud free agent that year, they could contend for a championship in 2011-2012. This team will likely have between 30 & 40 wins next year and will be learning to play together.

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